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	<title>
	Comments on: Vkernels: when to use them	</title>
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	<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/</link>
	<description>A running description of activity related to DragonFly BSD.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486064</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2017 09:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486064</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s more or less what I meant; it&#039;s difficult to know beforehand if a remote server will be easily manageable wrt system installations/changing boot drives etc...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s more or less what I meant; it&#8217;s difficult to know beforehand if a remote server will be easily manageable wrt system installations/changing boot drives etc&#8230;</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 21:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Francois 

Why do you need to &quot;quickly change&quot; the OS?

As opposed to simply separate OS installed on physically different harddrivrle. And then shuting down and rebooting into the other environment?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Francois </p>
<p>Why do you need to &#8220;quickly change&#8221; the OS?</p>
<p>As opposed to simply separate OS installed on physically different harddrivrle. And then shuting down and rebooting into the other environment?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Francois Tigeot		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486060</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francois Tigeot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 13:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486060</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Andrew: it could. I&#039;ll need to be able to quickly change operating systems, which I did by physically plugging/unplugging SATA disks last time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andrew: it could. I&#8217;ll need to be able to quickly change operating systems, which I did by physically plugging/unplugging SATA disks last time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486059</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486059</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Francios Tigeot

If I donated the dedicated server below for a month, would that help you. 

https://www.hetzner.de/gr/hosting/produkte_rootserver/dx291]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Francios Tigeot</p>
<p>If I donated the dedicated server below for a month, would that help you. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.hetzner.de/gr/hosting/produkte_rootserver/dx291" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.hetzner.de/gr/hosting/produkte_rootserver/dx291</a></p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Francois Tigeot		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486058</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francois Tigeot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486058</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Ricky, @Anonymous: I&#039;d love to but I&#039;ll need two things for that to happen:  access to a similar dual-xeon box and free time. Lots of free time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ricky, @Anonymous: I&#8217;d love to but I&#8217;ll need two things for that to happen:  access to a similar dual-xeon box and free time. Lots of free time.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Justin		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 05:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have a single answer that works for all of this: you all have the same access to the same tools as I or any DragonFly developer has.  If you want benchmarks or release plans or something else... get started.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a single answer that works for all of this: you all have the same access to the same tools as I or any DragonFly developer has.  If you want benchmarks or release plans or something else&#8230; get started.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 05:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If it is not too much trouble, can Linux be added to that Postgres benchmark?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it is not too much trouble, can Linux be added to that Postgres benchmark?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Wayne		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486055</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 03:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486055</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[+1 for someone to run current Postgres benchmark and compare against FreeBSD]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1 for someone to run current Postgres benchmark and compare against FreeBSD</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2017 00:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486054</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this is the benchmark Ricky is referring too from 2014. 

https://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/309_PG_as_bench_mark.pdf

I too would love to see an update of this benchmark.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is the benchmark Ricky is referring too from 2014. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/309_PG_as_bench_mark.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/309_PG_as_bench_mark.pdf</a></p>
<p>I too would love to see an update of this benchmark.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Ricky		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ricky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486053</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Francois Tigeot

Do you have any current benchmarks of Dragonfly running Postgres vs FreeBSD 11?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Francois Tigeot</p>
<p>Do you have any current benchmarks of Dragonfly running Postgres vs FreeBSD 11?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Justin Sherrill		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486052</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Sherrill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 18:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486052</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The ath(4) man page mentions 11n as supported by the AR5416 ath chipsets, and those are a supported chipset - so it looks like yes.  Note that I don&#039;t have anything with this chipset to find out.

https://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=ath&amp;section=ANY

sephe in #dragonflybsd (Sepherosa Ziehau) is the one who knows.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ath(4) man page mentions 11n as supported by the AR5416 ath chipsets, and those are a supported chipset &#8211; so it looks like yes.  Note that I don&#8217;t have anything with this chipset to find out.</p>
<p><a href="https://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=ath&#038;section=ANY" rel="nofollow ugc">https://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=ath&#038;section=ANY</a></p>
<p>sephe in #dragonflybsd (Sepherosa Ziehau) is the one who knows.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486051</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 18:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486051</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Does HAMMER2 have a chance of being ported to other BSDs? I remember this being difficult with HAMMER1 without major parts of the Dragonfly kernel needing to be implemented as well. But then again, FreeBSD basically did that with ZFS and the Solaris kernel.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does HAMMER2 have a chance of being ported to other BSDs? I remember this being difficult with HAMMER1 without major parts of the Dragonfly kernel needing to be implemented as well. But then again, FreeBSD basically did that with ZFS and the Solaris kernel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486050</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486050</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is there  11n support for athn in the next release?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there  11n support for athn in the next release?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Francois Tigeot		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486049</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francois Tigeot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 14:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486049</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[With regard to the &quot;production system&quot; thing, I can tell you DragonFly is pretty much used in production/money making roles even if it is not widely publicized.
Heck, my company has been using it to manage invoices for close to 10 years now...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to the &#8220;production system&#8221; thing, I can tell you DragonFly is pretty much used in production/money making roles even if it is not widely publicized.<br />
Heck, my company has been using it to manage invoices for close to 10 years now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Krypton		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486048</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Krypton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 07:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486048</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@JakobT

I&#039;ve learned quite a bit about the project&#039;s goals by idling around on the IRC channel. A lot of immediate and near term stuff is discussed by the developers, but every now and then there are pretty good discussions about longer term goals. I remember some time ago reading that Dillon said that he was pretty happy with the state of the DragonFlyBSD kernel. Much of what seems to be happening now is squeezing out more performance from already mature subsystems (SMP operations for example), fixing bugs and now heavy work is being done on the DragonFlyBSD vkernel. Dports is working beautifully and a lot of previously non-building ports have been fixed. UEFI booting is now a go, clang support seems to be not too far away.

HAMMER2 is documented here: https://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/sys/vfs/hammer2/DESIGN I am pretty sure I am correct in saying that the entire *BSD community is hoping that Dillon can pull this one off. We are rooting for you!

You can also get a sense of the project&#039;s longer term goals by seeing what they wish to include in the project. For that the Google Summer of Code Project suggestion list is informative: https://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/gsocprojectspage/ note that many of the suggested items are very serious projects in and of themselves. DragonFlyBSD is definitely not a hobby OS. Perhaps in the true spirit of open source computing the project is essentially defaulting to &quot;look, here is the code, do what you want with it&quot;.

I can certainly see the commercial appeal of using DragonFlyBSD as a cloud computing backend once HAMMER2 is production ready. Perhaps even a NAS or SAN product as well. There are a number of groups that have spent a ton of money trying to make ZFS clusterable / high-availability with varying levels of success. HAMMER2 will do this out of the box as well as have machine-level and network-level redundancy. 

Time will tell of course, but I&#039;d say that their unspoken road map is pretty clear.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JakobT</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve learned quite a bit about the project&#8217;s goals by idling around on the IRC channel. A lot of immediate and near term stuff is discussed by the developers, but every now and then there are pretty good discussions about longer term goals. I remember some time ago reading that Dillon said that he was pretty happy with the state of the DragonFlyBSD kernel. Much of what seems to be happening now is squeezing out more performance from already mature subsystems (SMP operations for example), fixing bugs and now heavy work is being done on the DragonFlyBSD vkernel. Dports is working beautifully and a lot of previously non-building ports have been fixed. UEFI booting is now a go, clang support seems to be not too far away.</p>
<p>HAMMER2 is documented here: <a href="https://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/sys/vfs/hammer2/DESIGN" rel="nofollow ugc">https://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/sys/vfs/hammer2/DESIGN</a> I am pretty sure I am correct in saying that the entire *BSD community is hoping that Dillon can pull this one off. We are rooting for you!</p>
<p>You can also get a sense of the project&#8217;s longer term goals by seeing what they wish to include in the project. For that the Google Summer of Code Project suggestion list is informative: <a href="https://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/gsocprojectspage/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/gsocprojectspage/</a> note that many of the suggested items are very serious projects in and of themselves. DragonFlyBSD is definitely not a hobby OS. Perhaps in the true spirit of open source computing the project is essentially defaulting to &#8220;look, here is the code, do what you want with it&#8221;.</p>
<p>I can certainly see the commercial appeal of using DragonFlyBSD as a cloud computing backend once HAMMER2 is production ready. Perhaps even a NAS or SAN product as well. There are a number of groups that have spent a ton of money trying to make ZFS clusterable / high-availability with varying levels of success. HAMMER2 will do this out of the box as well as have machine-level and network-level redundancy. </p>
<p>Time will tell of course, but I&#8217;d say that their unspoken road map is pretty clear.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486047</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 04:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486047</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not going to hate on anything BSDNow people have been doing -  it&#039;s unprecedented: producing weekly BSD content and keeping on doing it.  Very few other people (me, BSDTalk, Dan Langille, Michael W. Lucas) have managed to consistently output BSD material in the long run - and BSDNow is producing video, which is a lot harder than my few-sentences-of-text dailies.  

I&#039;m not arguing against your opinion; it&#039;s valid because it&#039;s your own; but I want the scale of what they are doing to be noticed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to hate on anything BSDNow people have been doing &#8211;  it&#8217;s unprecedented: producing weekly BSD content and keeping on doing it.  Very few other people (me, BSDTalk, Dan Langille, Michael W. Lucas) have managed to consistently output BSD material in the long run &#8211; and BSDNow is producing video, which is a lot harder than my few-sentences-of-text dailies.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not arguing against your opinion; it&#8217;s valid because it&#8217;s your own; but I want the scale of what they are doing to be noticed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Schumacher		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486046</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Schumacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486046</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not to hate on BSDNow because the two guys obviously spend a lot of their own time broadcasting the show and they are dedicated  ... but

1. The guys are really hard to watch. They are so scatter brained and the content is so little. Many times they just broadcast them essentially reading a blog article they came across

2. Many times the content isn&#039;t even bsd related]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to hate on BSDNow because the two guys obviously spend a lot of their own time broadcasting the show and they are dedicated  &#8230; but</p>
<p>1. The guys are really hard to watch. They are so scatter brained and the content is so little. Many times they just broadcast them essentially reading a blog article they came across</p>
<p>2. Many times the content isn&#8217;t even bsd related</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Matthew Dillon has said essentially it&#039;s a research OS.  This is an arbitrary/pointless distinction, really.  Linux was an academic exercise until it was picked up by commercial companies, at which point it was I guess a &quot;production system&quot;.  I can tell you it&#039;s production or hobby or research or whatever, but the code&#039;s still the same high quality.  The only way to encourage it is to use it.

As for people talking about stuff...  Lemme put this in perspective: I&#039;ve been doing this for more than a decade.  We now have BSDNow, and some other sources out there talking about BSD, and some active user groups in the US.  5 years ago - there were none.  For any BSD.  This is pretty good, considering the New Hotness is DevOps and containers and doing your best to make systems irrelevant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Dillon has said essentially it&#8217;s a research OS.  This is an arbitrary/pointless distinction, really.  Linux was an academic exercise until it was picked up by commercial companies, at which point it was I guess a &#8220;production system&#8221;.  I can tell you it&#8217;s production or hobby or research or whatever, but the code&#8217;s still the same high quality.  The only way to encourage it is to use it.</p>
<p>As for people talking about stuff&#8230;  Lemme put this in perspective: I&#8217;ve been doing this for more than a decade.  We now have BSDNow, and some other sources out there talking about BSD, and some active user groups in the US.  5 years ago &#8211; there were none.  For any BSD.  This is pretty good, considering the New Hotness is DevOps and containers and doing your best to make systems irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Schumacher		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486044</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Schumacher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 01:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486044</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[+ 1 JakobT &#038; Ben]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+ 1 JakobT &amp; Ben</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben		</title>
		<link>https://www.dragonflydigest.com/2017/01/23/vkernels-when-to-use-them/comment-page-1/#comment-486043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2017 23:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.dragonflydigest.com/?p=19232#comment-486043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[+ 1 is dragonfly a hobby OS or meant to be used in production systems?

I&#039;ve long since wondered this as well. Seems like it has so much potential but no clear communication of its intents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+ 1 is dragonfly a hobby OS or meant to be used in production systems?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve long since wondered this as well. Seems like it has so much potential but no clear communication of its intents.</p>
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